5th grader suspended for T-shirt
What are your thoughts on this?
posted by Mr. Carlisle at 4:38 PM
Tuesday, September 23, 2008
About Me
- Name: Mr. Carlisle
- Location: Portland, Oregon, United States
I'm a native South Carolinian and I attained my undergraduate and graduate degrees from the University of South Carolina. I taught fourth grade for two years in the Mississippi Delta and two years at an alternative high school in Western North Carolina. I have been at Tigard High School since the fall of 2003, where I teach U.S. History and Psychology.
Previous Posts
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- September 22
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- September 16
32 Comments:
I think that he should be suspended. What he did is so messed up. If that kid or his father thinks that, then they should keep it to themselves.
It's not even funny.
4:51 PM
Free Speech.
That should sum up my opinion very nicely.
5:04 PM
do you know how im posta log on eSIS?
6:06 PM
Cat,
I think it involves your name and the year you graduate. If you email me I can tell you your grade.
6:12 PM
it's issues such as these that make me question my own beliefs. on one hand, i do so believe schools should have the right to maintain an environment free from bigotry, but what do we define as being offensive to the student body? also i find quite funny that this kid doesn't seem to understand that his "right to free speech" can, and will, be restricted on campus.
7:05 PM
I guess ignorance takes a variety of forms in a variety of ages..
7:15 PM
No, he doesn't understand that. And sadly the father will lose any lawsuit he files.
Sad because I view public schools as public property, and that every word of the US Constitution applies on public property, no exceptions.
I have the same distasteful view of public universities and their "speech codes".
7:15 PM
And yes, he is ignorant, but that does not mean his First Amendment rights should be infringed upon because someone may find his ignorant dribble offensive.
7:17 PM
Except he isn't covered by the First Amendment! The freedom of speech in the First Amendment does not include
libel (written defamation of a person). That shirt, and therefore that kid, are not protected and shuld not be protected by the First Amendment at all.
7:19 PM
Show me where in the Constitution it says he isn't allowed to say that Obama supports Terrorism...
7:22 PM
I think the school is in the right making him not wear the shirt. In my opinion, schools should be able to restrict kids from wearing or saying inappropriate things. School (especially in 5th grade) needs to be a safe place that promotes learning for the students. When he wears something like that, it could cause arguments or even fights, and would definitely make some students uncomfortable. That is not what school is about.
7:31 PM
Exactly. In this case, every student has the right to learn in a good environment and THAT'S WHY we have dress codes. If it disrupts learning, freedom of speech (in schools in this case) doesn't matter.
It could say something like, "Obama loves puppies" and is all like, sunshine, happiness, and rainbows...but if it disrupts learning or the environment in the classroom, then it shouldn't be allowed.
7:49 PM
I am more worried about the backwards 3 as an E and the spaghetti sauce stains on the shirt.
7:54 PM
This comment has been removed by the author.
8:25 PM
This is a tricky case. On hand there's the issue of free speech or freedom of expression. Both are protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution. However, the Supreme Court has consistently ruled that schools have the right to limit student expression under the Constitution. The standard is pretty weak. The school just has to show that the attempted speech/expression disrupts the learning environment.
Wait until we discuss the Bong Hits for Jesus Supreme Court decision. I can't wait to hear the comments about that. I love me some Constitutional debates!
8:28 PM
The school gave the kid the choice to be suspended or not. If the school had out right suspended him I would have questioned the appropriateness of that decision, but since the fifth grader chose to be suspended instead of turning the shirt inside out or just changing the shirt I completely agree with the school's decision. I think there's something in dress codes that say you can't wear things that disrupts learning, like shirts with alcoholic or sexual references. The kid and his father don't have a good case against the school.
8:29 PM
Oh, did I mention that besides limited free speech at school that students do not have the right to privacy? The fourth amendment doesn't apply to you guys at school.
8:34 PM
Hey Mr. Carlisle, is there any way to read the book online?
I remember having it after to school, and now i can't remember if i put it in my locker.
8:52 PM
Negative Tiffany. Sorry.
8:53 PM
While I understand that the schools have the right to suspend the boy i don't agree with their decision the shirt is not hurting any one. Just because the schools can suspend the boy for the shirt doesn't mean they should.
I'm Dan Millar from period 2 and i've approved this message
8:56 PM
Okay, I guess i have to read it tomorrow morning. I don't understand how i left it. I had history fourth period.
Grrr
8:56 PM
Considering the fact that the first amendment is probably the most cut-and-dry one of the first 10, I can with complete confidence say that, with their decisions on this (and dozens of other) First Amendment cases, the Supreme Court did not interpret the Constitution, they modified it.
Which I believe is not a power entitled to them.
Oh btw, I'm a libertarian/liberal hybrid, in case nobody noticed.
9:28 PM
The whole t-shirt controversy is.....I don't know what to say. I agree with Dan, that the shirt isn't hurting anyone. People have different opinions, but then again, saying that a presidential candidate is a terrorist's best friend isn't the smartest thing to have on a shirt in a school environment. What if the teacher used to be good friends with Obama?? The chances of that though are very slim.....but you never know.
9:56 PM
I think that the one thing that I dislike about America (keep in mind, I like America) is that people seriously take for granted their right to free speech- sometimes I feel like people act like they can say/do/write anything even if, in this case, it harms a certain environment (i.e. the school). When people freak out and complain about something like this (pretty trivial instance) they should be thankful that they don't get put in jail like in Communist countries where speaking out against the gov't or whatever is a severe crime. This is NOT real oppression. And to think of banning a shirt like this is a violation of the constitution (AND in school environ, where our rights to such things as freedom of speech, etc. is limited or nonexistent) is, in my humble opinion, an exaggeration and an overreaction. But I respect anyone's alternate views.
That being said, I am NOT saying that we should all surrender to the control of our almighty beloved leaders and submit ourselves to the will of gov't control. Of course, there are violations of rights that I am not happy to read about. I am in no way condoning that.
and I know my words will be skewed somewhat in a refutation.
9:57 PM
People died so that our freedom of speech could exist. By not letting it exist in its entirety we are doing nothing but making their deaths be in vain.
9:59 PM
The school system is viewing this in the same regard as profanity, disrespect, etc. It is something that will disrupt the learning and in that case needs to be removed. It doesn't matter if it is political or not, if it interrupts learning than it needs to be removed. If everyone had freedom of speech and could wear/say whatever they wanted whenever they wanted than it would be impossible to learn.
9:59 PM
It's only a disruption if you make it one. If you just don't acknowledge it, it's nothing more than a shirt with a message. Like any other.
10:02 PM
True but you can't control whether others will make it a distraction or not so if one person makes a big deal out of it that shirt could disrupt the entire class. Limiting the things you can wear seem to be the best option to me in a school environment
10:06 PM
They shoulda of just asked him to take it off at first. Just like any shools, if there were any shirts which made teachers think that it might not be appropriate for the school. All they do is ask them to take it off. But if the student disagrees, then further actions may be taken.
8:07 PM
I guess, technically the kid should get his freedom of speech. However, school isn't exactly the place to be making crude statements. And would going to school nude be a form of speech? Should the school allow this form of speech if it disrupts the "learning ambience"? I realize nudity and "obama is a terrorist's best friend" are on two different levels of disruption, but I think the concept is pretty much the same. It has a higher likelihood to cause disruption within the classroom, therefore the authorities remove that possible disruption. Oh yeah, and we're kids so what few rights we have to begin with are forfeited to the school for the 7 hours we're there, which is generally understood among all. I guess I don't think it's so outrageous for them to suspend him if he refused to cooperate.
And I know this is going to contradict everything I just said, but I personally wouldn't mind if I saw a kid wearing that shirt walking down the halls. It's just his opinion after all. But he should have made a shirt that said "McCane is my best friend:D!" i think that would've gone over better.
4:35 PM
Do 5th graders even know about the presidential candidates?! He's like, what, 10 or 11 years old? It's probably his parents' opinion, or something he heard from someone else. I doubt he even knows Obama's beliefs or what he's done, or McCain's for that matter. I don't think he should've gotten suspended. Talk to the kid's parents. They'd probably be like "YEAHHH OBAMA SUCKSSSS!!" and then you'd realize why he was wearing the shirt in the first place. Seriously, though--when I was his age, I didn't really care about national issues. As long as I got my juice box and fish crackers everyday after school--I was set.
7:55 PM
When dealing with limmiting speech in public schools, the concept of technical consistency ought to be applied. Too evaluate the appropriateness of the T-shirt, one must analyze what the shirt technically implies and whether that is disrespectful to an honorable public official (ex. a judge, a Senator, the president) deserving of respect. What the shirt technically implied was that Senator Obama is a friend of terrorists. Now, common sense might tell someone that this is simply satire expressing a dissenting oppinion on Obama's policies on terrorism, but it could also be extremely disrespectful satire implying that is similar to terrorists and the boy's free speech only has to be permitted if technicality can be applied and find that its literal meening is non-offensive.
9:52 PM
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